The standard wall thickness for a residential house is typically 4.5 inches, including a 1/2 inch drywall on both sides. For wooden frame and drywall construction, interior walls typically measure 4.5 inches, including half-inch drywall on each side of a 3.5-inch wooden frame. For brick-built homes, cavity walls are created.
Interior walls made of drywall typically measure between ½ inch and 5/8 inch thick. Brick walls tend to be slightly thicker, ranging from 4 inches to 6. Interior walls in residential buildings typically have a thickness that ranges from 4.5 inches to 6 inches, including both the drywall and framing. Key factors that influence wall thickness include the age of the home, wall type, and the presence of plumbing.
Indoor walls consist of 75, 95, 145, 195 mm construction wood frame and mineral wool sound isolation. The thickness of the walls mainly depends on the wall type. 3/8 inch drywall is often used for patching or remodeling projects and is also handy for various purposes.
In traditional wood-framed homes, interior walls are typically framed with 2×4 lumber, resulting in a wall thickness of about 4.5 inches once drywall is applied. The heaviest wall panel among full, window, and door panels is typically made out of 2×4 wood studs. Multi-family homes use 2×3–5/8″ metal studs (non combustible) for multi-family walls.
Modern homes should have a standard exterior wall thickness of 6-1/2″, but always double check due to code requirements. Plaster walls are typically thicker than drywall, and patch kits are available for small holes and larger ones.
📹 CHANNEL 9 NEWS STORY FEATURES IBUILD FLATPACK KIT HOMES
Flatpack kit homes are helping some Australian families get closer to their dream of owning a home. Know more on: …
How thick are the walls in a manufactured home?
VOG (Vinyl Oxide Green) walls are a popular choice for mobile homes due to their versatility and affordability. These walls can be 3/8″ or ½” thick and come in various vinyl colors and designs. Room and accent walls can be made of shiplap, wood, red brick, and white-wash brick. A housing specialist can help you choose the right VOG wall for your new home.
VOG walls are durable, easy to maintain, and easy to clean, unlike tape-and-textured walls. They can be easily wiped down and painted without causing paint to discolor. VOG wall floor plans can be found in the New Moon and Select series.
Tape-and-textured walls, a seamless textured drywall, are also available in manufactured homes for a more residential and modern look. These walls are common in site-built homes but are now being used in manufactured homes to give a more modern look. This option is not limited to modular homes, as they are available across all manufactured homes.
How thick are interior wall panels?
MDF panels are commonly used for wall panelling, ceiling panelling, and wainscoting. Wall panelling typically uses thicknesses of 1/4 inch to 3/8 inch, with thinner options available for added durability or a more solid effect. Ceiling panelling typically uses thinner MDF panels due to weight concerns, with thicknesses of 1/4 inch or 3/8 inch. Wainscoting, typically on the bottom section of walls, uses thicknesses of 3/8 inch to 1/2 inch for durability and aesthetic appeal. Proper installation procedures and equipment are crucial for a successful panelling job using MDF.
What is wall thickness in house plan?
The typical residential building’s outer wall thickness is 9 inches (0. 23 m), while its inner wall thickness is 4 inches (0. 10 m).
How thin are mobile home walls?
Manufactured home wallboards range from 5/16″ to ½”, with the majority of new Clayton homes using 3/8″ thickness. The most popular measurement for Paper On Gypsum (POG) wallboards is now 3/8″. Finished drywall wallboards are available in 3/8″ or ½” options in Clayton manufactured homes built at home building facilities. Wall insulation is another important factor in manufactured home walls, with new Clayton Built® homes improving quality over the last 15 years.
What is the standard thickness of interior walls?
The standard wall thickness in home construction has increased from 4 inches to 6 inches for new construction. This is due to the potential for air movement through a 4-inch wall and insulation layer, causing convection and allowing cold air to enter and heat to leave. The recommended wall thickness for new construction is double the current standard, which is 12 inches. This is because densely packed cellulose insulation in the walls can completely prevent air from leaving or penetrating the living space, achieving an ideal R-value of 3.
7 per inch of insulation. While not recommending rebuilding with 12-inch walls, wall thickness is a consideration for upcoming home construction or renovations, as it offers superior protection, climate control, comfort, and energy efficiency.
How thick are new build internal walls?
Internal load-bearing walls are crucial in construction and renovation projects as they provide structural support and maintain the integrity of a building. A common standard thickness for brick walls is around 125mm (5 inches), while block walls have a thickness of 100mm (4 inches). Wall thickness ensures the walls can withstand the weight and pressure they will bear, preventing structural failure and ensuring the safety of the building and its occupants.
The dimensions and measurements of load-bearing walls are determined based on building codes, structural requirements, and engineering calculations, taking into account the specific load-bearing capacity needed for the wall to effectively support the structure.
Do new builds have thin walls?
Newly constructed buildings are not designed with thin party walls, as per Document E under the 2010 Building Regulations. It is a requirement that all dwelling houses, flats, and residential rooms provide reasonable resistance to sound from other parts of the same building and adjoining buildings. This refutes the popular belief that purchasing a new build is inadvisable due to the thinness of the walls.
How thick is the average wall in CM?
In order to ascertain the type of construction, it is necessary to measure the wall thickness at entrances or windows. The typical thickness of a solid brick wall is 22 centimetres, while a cavity wall ranges from 27 to 30 centimetres in thickness. A solid stone wall may reach up to 50 centimetres in thickness.
Can you hang heavy things on mobile home walls?
Hanging a TV in a manufactured home can be challenging due to the wall construction, which may not be as sturdy as traditional stick-built homes. To hang a TV, locate the studs in the wall, which may be different from 16 or 24 inches apart in traditional homes. Anchor the TV mount into the studs, not just the wallboard. A stud finder can help locate these studs. Wall material in manufactured homes can vary, and in some cases, particle board or gypsum board may be less strong than traditional drywall, making it even more crucial to ensure the TV is mounted into the studs.
How thick is a modern house wall?
The thickness of a wall can be determined at a given point along its length, with solid walls typically measuring 23 centimetres in thickness and cavity walls measuring 30 centimetres in thickness. To install cavity wall insulation, energy supply companies offer discounts of approximately 60% on the standard price. Additionally, income-related benefits may entitle individuals to free services. Additionally, HEET and Warm Front provide complimentary insulation for those who qualify.
How thick is a Japanese interior wall?
Traditional Japanese houses typically have thin walls, with a ceiling height of 7. 9 ft (2. 4 meters) based on average Japanese heights and air conditioning efficiency requirements. To build traditional Japanese walls in Live Home 3D, use Story Wall type for standard walls, Loft Wall type for mansard floors, and Curtain Wall type for unconventional solutions. The default wall height is 9 feet 10. 1 inches, which can be changed in the Current Story section of the Building Properties tab. When creating the house’s walls, pay attention to the thickness parameter in the Object Properties tab of the Inspector.
📹 Major ICF Problem?
Over the years we have used insulated concrete forms (ICF’s) on a good half dozen projects. More recently though we have …
Living in a Northern state and in a tornado/extreme weather area I wouldn’t do anything else. We have zero issues with termites. I’ve helped with several ICF homes, basements and foundations. It’s so straightforward about anyone can do it with basic training. I’m building ICF with in floor heat. Quiet, comfortable and warm in those 60+ mph blizzards at -30°F. You’re literally living in a concrete safe room for tornadoes. Lots of peace of mind.
I remember back when I first started construction, we would have to put a termite shield (galvanized sheet metal) on before the sill plate, it capped the foundation on both sides and flared out away from the foundation a little bit. With the use of treated lumber this practice kind of went by the wayside. This would solve the problem of termites migrating into the sill plate. Sorry if this is a repeat to someone else’s comment, I didn’t read all the comments.
Well, I built lots of ICF in Carolina, and NONE of those houses have termite problems with the below ground ICF. I was building at the time the lumber and brick industry in NC got nervous about losing $$ to ICF builds! They hired a young engineer in SC to lab test ICF for termite infestation. She, in a conversation in Asheville explained how she determined termites would eat styrofoam. She took a 2ft glass lab beaker, placed a termite nest in the bottom of the beaker, and plugged the other end with a styrofoam plug. She then stated that the termites ate through the plug! Thus, her conclusion was “termites eat styrofoam!” I asked her, “What if I put you in a sealed room, and plugged the exit with styrofoam? Would you suffocate, or eat your way out?” At the hearing that day, I asked the building code board members (2 of which were from brick companies, 2, from lumber companies) if they would ban all below ground materials because of termites? They stated that wood could be treated, block didn’t need to be, and neither needed to be insulated. I then asked, “Well, as a commercial builder, you demand styrofoam insulation on the corners of below ground builds for insulation purposes. Does this ruling mean you’ll change that regulation?” They responded, “that styrofoam is different.” I later found that termites will travel/tunnel 7-9″ and if they don’t find food, they’ll stop! Of course, I went to a reputable independent laboratory that was not state funded to get this information. the good ole boys will protect their pocket books first!
16 Years ago I built an ICF home for myself. Realised the same issue and just brought the ICF up off the ground with a 6 courses of block. As it was my own home the extra cost involved was absorbable but the foundation to block to ICF construction has proved strong, resilient and easy to inspect. Every bit of wood structure and subfloor has also been sprayed with Boracare and maintained. Boracare is awesome!!
You stated that a lot of other companies are using ICF and in order to get a C of O you need a termite certificate which should tell you something, it must be possible and relying on a single termite company to base your opinion and this article is likely a mistake. If you know others are doing it you should have gone around and ask how.
Logix TX ICF blocks are embedded with Imadacloprid to kill termites. Nudura Peel and Stick foundation coating has been rated as a termite barrier. You can also install a termite shield in the foam block around the perimeter before pouring that embeds a “fence” into the concrete that forces termites to the outside of the wall where their tunnels can be discovered. Sorry, I know none of this helps you.
When I built my place with ICF, we used the “fastfoot” system which makes the footing waterproof. Then we used the Nudura peel and stick and lapped it over the fastfoot to completely seal it. Then added dimple board over top of that. We do not live in a termite area, but there is no way anything is getting all through that.
We built a ICF home in Tennessee. To combat the issue you are talking about, we used fast foot for the footing that is a special plastic that we poured the footing into then we used a product called suprema COLPHENE To wrap the building, that’s attached to the fast foot. On the inside of the fast foot we used a heavy plastic with water proof tape connected to inside of fast foot, before we poured the basement floor. We believe that will combat any termite issue. When we went to school for ICF install, there was never any mention about any Termite issue, they should have discussed it. My issue was water. I wanted to have a dry basement. So we are just finishing up our ICF home with hanger and garage attached . Hopefully our efforts will leave us with a dry, no termites, home.
FINALLY! Somebody talking about this. I’ve been commenting here on Youtube for years about this problem. It is not limited to termites. It is not limited to ICF’s but applies to all foam board (including sandwich ZIP!) on the out side of the wall as well. And it is not limited to North Carolina. This problem applies in the entire country. Case in point: I remodeled a house in Pennsylvania that had foam board on the outside of the sheathing. Carpenter ants had drilled websites and hollowed out the board all the way to roof! The house was infested with carpenter ants – they love foam! A few years ago, I asked a Dow Chemical representative at the Builders Show why they are not selling foam products that are toxic to insects. His answer: “We did and nobody bought them because they carry a higher price. So we stopped.” What makes matters worse, states like PA require by code to burry foam board in the ground as insulator of basement walls. It’s idiotic and NOBODY CARES.
I have an ICF house and have no problem getting bug treatment. I have termite traps around the house and no problems. I’m in Missouri. I’d never consider anything but ICF at this point. I love everything about it. This home was built in 2007, I bought it in 2021 and I’m super-impressed by the solid build, quiet, and overall strength of the material. I LOVE it.
Not tied to any system but seems silly to swear something off when there’s so many fixes. You have to waterproof the foam before it gets embedded. The waterproofing used can be dual purpose termite and waterproofing. Wouldn’t help your situation with a second treatment, but I wouldn’t avoid building with it because of the pest control company.
Here on Brazil we use to build everything of reenforced concrete and bricks, and precasted slabs. Even litle houses. Is very resistant, and our biggest (and almost only) problem is the umidity. The people here kinda see your houses like a joke, from paper, weak, but as a civil engineer i know your tecniques is excelent, and somethimes better than ours for residencial pruposes. (sorry my english)
Jamie, So glad to see you doing well after last summer. I have built in the SW in moderate to high termite locations with ICF and understanding your termite guys trepidation from a liability standpoint. Perhaps greater education of his company is what is required. Proper installs with liquid waterproofing membranes followed by barrier peal and stick a (belt and suspenders approach) gives piece of mind. Purchased after the fact is a guess without documentation. Soil treatment with citrus delaminates in pure form repel ants and termites. Also use marigolds and chrysanthemums which are the basis for most insecticides pyrethrum.
If people are build ICF homes in your area and if passing final inspection requires a termite card, and if the IFC homes are passing the final inspection, then there must be a way to do it. You should investigate more. Maybe ask an inspectors that performs the final inspection. Also, don’t use Insulated Concrete Forms (ICFs) below grade in certain jurisdictions.
That’s good information. In Arizona we have termites everywhere. I’m getting ready to put on a large addition and I’m looking into alternatives materials for the insulation mostly. The main house was moved onto this property in 1980 and was the valley bank in cave creek az. It has very thick walls and stays cool. We can’t afford a basement since they are very pricey out here. Like 80 to 100 grand added to the price. That’s ridiculous. Our whole addition budget is around 300,000. Unless we want to pitch a tent on top it ain’t happening. Thank for the information, it really does help those of us still in the planning process.
You can remove a 6 inch strip of foam around the perimeter creating an “inspection strip”. You can even treat the area and replace the foam. Termidor is the best option for preventing Termites. It can be purchased for $60 online and if sprayed every 6 months to a year the bottle will last ~5 years depending on the size of the house. Only a handful of states restrict pesticides. Just follow the directions on the label and your golden.
I believe you can spray it. Use termite bait traps. In temperatures that freeze I don’t think it’s a problem?the termites don’t eat the foam, but tunnel into it. You would have the same issue with wood and often it goes undetected if the slab is on grade and is a monolithic pour it would be hard to get through 4 inches of concrete?
I never heard of that excuse/ It doesn’t make sense. If the ICF are professionally waterproofed with a spray on membrane with rain guard panels installed over it, how could termites penetrate this system? Professionally, I chose to install a wide bed of gravel from the footer up to the foundation wall to insure greater drainage. Keep us posted and thanks for sharing.
In the Atlanta area, most building jurisdictions will not permit the building if you are using ICFs. It allows the perfect path for termites to enter the structure. ICF’s should be used in aeas with no termites as in the southeastern US. Also, there is both vertical and horizontal rebar in ICFs, which is a good thing. Years ago, the builders were having problems with termites when hardcoat masonry stucco was being used and at or below ground level. The jurisdictions then required that the stucco be stopped 8″ from the soil and angled upward to preclude termites from entering.
I thought the whole point behind ICF was efficiency, where you can completely air seal, and pest seal a house. most of the ICF constructions I’ve visited when looking into it have a shelf on the bottom concrete slab that goes into the icf form locking it in place and to make a completely linked concreate envelope seal. then all cracks on the house get covered in a stick on vapor barrier and/or liquid flashing down to the bottom concrete slab. The majority of these icf houses also do stucco or a floating vinyl siding and the interior has either wood or metal rafters and those interior bits of wood are really easy to get to for inspecting for things like termites especially if the home owner were to opt in for a floating ceiling in their basements. not to mention ICF companies are making roofing forums to reduce the need for a wooden roof and improve insulation values. something is off with those termite inspection companies, all they should need for inspecting a ICF house is a borescope camera and a drill slightly larger than the camera. a really good 4k borescope camera is cheap nowadays, hell they make them for phones now, and for a pest inspection company they should have the tools and equipment to cheaply patch any holes created during the inspection process. just like a cable company has the tools to patch holes left during a install on a old construction home, that is baked into the pricing of inspection and line runs.
Hi how about installing a galvaized band strip so insects cannot rise further up the wall . Even at the point of the strip it could act as a drip barrier with a slight indentaion so that you have a peice of a chemical impregnated material almost like a damp proof course . Just a thought to see if it could help or be adapted into building regs . Thanks Rory
We’re seriously looking at ICF for our house build here in northern Idaho. Especially if we can get a builder that can do a passive house certification. We’re looking at it specifically from three angles: 1: Be as self-sufficient as possible, limiting reliance on grid power and propane deliveries in adverse weather. Winter storms and wind storms are frequent enough that it doesn’t make sense to leave it out of the house design. 2: We live in timber country. A properly built ICF house can withstand certain levels of exterior wildfire exposure and remain habitable. They’re also bullet proof to a degree. Not a bad thing in rural Idaho. 3: Properly built, it should have excellent thermal properties, limiting energy needs for heating and cooling.
Erik…What about all the EPS that is being placed under slabs where radiant heating is planned. Will this be degraded over time or attract more colonies of termites to the site? I would expect any legitimate pest control business to apply appropriate toxins to whatever the client wanted. It may still be their choice to warranty such work but at the end of the day, isn’t it a decision for the one paying the bill? As an aside, isn’t EPS supposed to be isolated from direct contact from soil; either a radon abatement layer (plastic sheeting) or wall moisture membrane?
Wow, I am impressed that this subject is discussed with respect to ICFs! Realistic youtube is refreshing! When we use any foam below grade, we provide flashing (vinyl and/or SS) though the foam layer, above grade, so that any termites have to go around it (required for frost-protected footing design), AND we onsite-treat all subgrade foam with borates – a combination of boric acid and boraxo. Here in N Calif we don’t need treatment cert…yet. It will happen because all wood homes here get termites.
I am an owner builder in the New York finger lakes region and when making the decision about a basement there were very few outfits pouring concrete and cement blocks aren’t done in the winter. I opted for superior walls and was happy I did. The price was less than poured concrete, it comes with insulation built in to meet energy codes, it’s ready to build on the next day without the additional step of waterproofing the walls, and it was the most perfect foundation I have ever to build on top of.
Why is this a problem? I built an ICF home that had a 6″ core in the basement and a 4″ core above grade to the roof trusses. The flooring system was engineered wood trusses and OSB. There was boron in the wood. The boron was there to prevent mold and insects from attacking the wood. If you are still concerned about the wood being attacked by insects, don’t use any wood. You can build the floor system with Quad Deck ICF products and simply eliminate the vulnerability completely.
We pretreat the soil before pouring foundations and ICF forms can be wrapped with a shield such as Nudura sells to prevent penetrating the forms. And water proofing ICF is much easier and cheaper than the concrete block. At today’s building cost, a 2 x 6 wall house and an ICF house are within 2% of the cost of each other. The R50 insulation is almost impossible to match with stick framing.
I’ve never heard that reasoning before. Of course they never taught us that when I went to get trained with the ICFs. It makes sense though. I’m glad termites aren’t such an issue here as they are there. Although when I bought my house it had an old infestation of carpenter ants, they’d all since left but I had to do some pretty involved reconstruction to fix the damage
Hmm, I wonder how they would feel about a PerfectBlock foundation. Instead of raw Styrofoam on the outside, it’s granular foam coated in concrete. I hate to advertise another youtube website, but you might strike up a conversation with Matt Risinger or Steve Baczek (Build Network) to see if they’ve run into similar issues. That is something I really hadn’t considered for my plans, and damn good to know. If you find out more info, I’d definitely like to see a follow-up to this.
That seems like a line, I would find a new termite control company…treat the home, take the money, sign a warranty waiver if they so insist…the good still FAR out weighs the bad from a sound, solid, air-tight, pest resistance and of course the energy efficiency and savings. This is the FIRST “somewhat ” legitimate complaint that I have heard though…thank you for sharing. Thankfully here in MN, we don’t have the same issues. Concrete to the roof…including the roof…metal studs and eliminate ALL organic construction materials…best way to build and easily affordable with today’s lumber prices in April 2021
I know about termites issues, Nudura has blocks to place as the first core and eliminates that problem, even a coat of asphalt will do. Termites treatment are not good for the environment, penetration prevention is more important than contamination. You just going to put a ton of chemicals around the wall to stop them, and in a few years, you (or the homeowner) will do it again. By the time to finishing insulating and waterproofing that cinderblock wall, you have more labor hours, more materials, less insulation and you will never have the strength of an ICF wall unless you add inside of that wall a lot of rebars. But I am not a contractor so I can’t make an educated opinion.
Buildblock and logix both offer termite treated icf. For below grade, this is really the only way to protect the house without adding a membrane. Termite treatments do not penetrate icf below grade. Some people have suggested stripping outside of the top layers but that only allows you to see the tunnels. The icf below grade will still protect the termites from treatments so you still have a problem. It’s treated icf, or you have to strip the exterior foam off of everything below grade which really is only cost effective if you are a diy (you are paying for foam you then have to spend labor to strip and throw away). Foxblock recommends polyguard membrane below grade. It is approved by the sbcci so should pass any inspections in areas that require it (you may have to educate your inspector on it however depending on where you are but the materials are availavle).
I know one way to deter termites is to instal a piece of galvanized sheet metal on the foundation between the wall and the mud sill. You normally bend the outside piece so that it sheds water away from the wall as well. Assuming this goes over the ICFs you would see the termite tunnel if they went over and around the metal. Which they aren’t supposed to do. Not sure why this wouldn’t be sufficient for the termite company.
It has been some time ago but I saw a article where a person used a stainless steel mesh under the footers and up the outside walls and outside the water proofing to some height above ground level and then overlapped it on the inside and laid it beneath the concrete floor and water proofing when it was poured. Do not know how much extra that would cost but it would probably guarantee that termites would not be able to get into the structure unless there is someway for termites to chew through stainless steel mesh. If that works as claimed then you would not need termite treating on or around the foundation and stem walls ever to protect against termites; just the above ground structure would need treatment.
Well! Here in the Low Country of SC. Many contractors were booming with ICF from 2010-til I don’t know? Up until about 1-2 years I’ve noticed ICF has was a major base material. Now it seems to be Block again as the primary base and foundations. I asked a contractor if it had gotten more expensive? They said no, it’s just what the customer wants. That’s Strange? I would think ICF would be better insulation and stronger in a hurricane zone? Oh, Well?
Fox, Nudura etc are all about 2 5/8″ thick each side which is R-24, not R-50. I’ve heard issues with bugs but never actually seen someone post a article or pic about it. That being said a peel and stick or spray on and then a dimple guard membrane that you’d install on any below grade foundation should be more than enough to keep bugs out and water.
The second i read the title i knew what it was about . What people do not understand is Pest control companies ( commercial applicators) Often need special certifications for chemicals they use in order to qualify for a warranty . That training was updated years ago and shows massive pitfalls of icf such it being the perfect environment for termites, carpenter ants and rodents for nesting. As a result Companies know they have a high risk of return calls, insurance claims or other headaches . Icf is used on the foundation so it’s below grade and lower than the applied chemicals would treat. This makes if hard if at all possible to do a barrier treatment since they have a tunnel around it . Having personally repaired homes with invisible icf termites i can see why they avoid them just off the basis of liability let alone cost. One could get a solo commercial applicator to do treatment for the card but the effectiveness would be close to zero, Never use icf in the termite belt.
I have read about ICF being an issue with termites. People rarely mention it though. I haven’t heard about companies refusing to treat because of ICF or foam. Foam is really easy for termites to chew through so it makes a super highway of sorts into the wood areas of your home, depending on the construction and path ways it presents. I just did a foundation foam retrofit for my slab on grade. We have termites in Central Oregon, but not as prolific as the southern states. I bought the chemical and did my own treatment plus stainless steel screen at the bottom of the sheathing to keep them from continuing up the wall. Someone else mentioned bait systems which would be a good idea for your home along with the chem treatment You can DIY those as well.
What about the Membrane … because I think icf foundation (below-grade) needs a membrane from the footing up to where the building becomes above-grade. Some of these membranes have even proven to be a good material to prevent termites. Honestly, it’s a pretty weird situation you got over there, I would look for an alternative, because ICFs are badass (My opinion). They just really need to be done the right way, no cutting around corners, makes an awesome house foundation.
For secondary treatment there are Termite Solutions to drench around foundations. Something I’ve done on my 4′ h. elevated concrete-filled CMU foundations every 5-years. Less $$$ was primary, and way better quality-control then your average Pest-Control person offers. Can’t remember the Solutions name (begins with “T”), but mix with water and drench away. btw, I’m in SW FL, USA. Does make me wonder what the many many EXTERIOR-FOAM INSULATION designs (check your back issues of FineHombuilding or JLC mags! 🙂 have overcome the worries you suggest? I always thought the manufacturer incorporated similar Solutions directly-into the Foam when they formed it at the factory? So the material itself kills the critters? Mr Perkins, maybe you should check with your ICF’s mfg. if there’s were made way??? 23-years on w/no problemo 🙂 Besides, Hurricane Ian’s flooding hereabouts probably cleared the whole area of those critters, anyway. Ughhh…. Now I ONLY Design/Build on concrete piers!!
As far as cost goes, that is WAY offset by the energy savings. And when it comes to termites, you should have a waterproof barrier that I doubt any insect is going to get through. I’ve had an ICF foundation for 20 years and never had problem one with termites. I’d find another company, they don’t seem to know what they’re doing. Termites can build inside a block wall just as easily as on the basement wall.
It’s a great thing that you sometimes take the time to reintroduce who you are and what you guys do in the articles. It’s a very warm introduction … even tho I’ve been here for awhile …. it’s a very nice touch before you get to the nuts and bolts. Happy Holidays to you guys! It’s been a huge year for everyone involved with the website. BRAVO
Build my home in Alberta from ICF form the footings to the rafters. Would never build any other way. That block wall was amazing system. Advantage block made in Alberta. Basement portions must be covered in a membrane such as red zone or blue skin basically a tar type membrane. Can’t see a termite surviving that. As for cost was easy on labour my wife and I did the walls saving on insulation house wraps vapor barriers and all the associated labour costs. You can destroy a cinder block with a hammer our home has a 6 inch concrete core and we have tornadoes in our area and I have no worries about them .We also get -40/-50’s so very energy efficient Remember you only spend good money ONCE.
Obviously houses can be built with ICF, since they are. So permitting isn’t an issue. But for an exterminator saying, we can’t treat your home to prevent a termite infestation, because we can’t tell if you have a termite infestation, is just dumb. Just have a caveat in the contract that says ICF foundations aren’t protected by whatever warranty they have. And a simple brake metal cap would stop any tunneling and force them outside.
This is the dumbest reason to not use ICF. Really all you need to do is flash the entire top form so that if a termite burrows thru the insulation then they are trapped at the steel flashing and have to burrow outward. Excuses are not a reason to use ICF. Read up on how to prevent termites would be the better solution. Here is one product that you can buy. buildblock.com/products/buildshield-termite-protection/ Redo you article and explain that you were wrong and that you should have invested more in to research before you trash ICFs about the lack of your ability to do simple research.
As a licensed termite technician ICF is not a problem. Block will pose a bigger problem. You must be leaving out something the only reason why a termite technician would not do a treatment would be if it would cause issues with them keeping their license. Like if their is a water source, lake, stream, river, well, cistern, within 100′ of area being treated high water table. Or if there is a known foundation drain as the chemicals used could leach out and cause contamination. If you have any of these conditions and maybe others depending on your state and or local regulations a reputable termite company would not perform a treatment.
Cut the foam off of the exterior of the foundation wall from the sole plate down to 6″ below grade and replace the soil. That does two things. First, it removes the evidence that the basement is built with ICFs. But far more significant is that it removes the foam between the soil and the wood structure of the house so termites will be forced to build visible mud tunnels to get to the wood structure. Tunnels on the outside of the basement walls are one of the main bits of evidence that inspectors look for to determine if a house has termites, so you are giving them that avenue to gather evidence. I would like to point out that termites have more options for getting into the wood your house is made of than crawling up the exterior of the basement wall. Basement walls, like all masonry, get cracks in them, and some cracks open up enough for termites to get through. And they may get into your basement three, or four, feet below grade. If you have fiber glass insulation installed on the inside of the basement walls in framed furr-outs, termites will have access to the entire house anyway.
Termites are prevalent where you are, and you don’t install copper termite shields between all concrete and wood framing?!?!? I think the continuous plastic ‘furring’ found in ICF’s is a huge advantage over block or formed concrete walls, and the fact that you can easily rout or hotwire websites for electrical when finishing a basement more than makes up for adding 2+” of furring and foam insulation to the interior in order to get a code compliant box without taking a demo hammer to sub-grade spaces.
Sorry to comment twice, rather than getting my thoughts together in the first. A quick Google search found lots of different approaches to the termites and ICF issue. I have to think this a local issue for you Perkins boys. That sucks, as I think ICF is one of the better approaches in a lot of areas. Thanks for posting. It is good to hear what challenges you face that drive your decisions.
Does local City Hall keep records of old building permits & plans? Find out what plans may be in local records office & get copies. Second, dig down in one or two locations to expose the as installed ICF installation. The as installed ICF may have been built with a Termite Shield or Barrier in place. If one is required by current code, and one is not installed, discover local permits process to upgrade your foundation to meet current code. This will improve resale value of your home.
Without the termite treatment, how does ANY new ICF home pass a final inspection? I’m assuming that some official government inspector must issue a “pass approval” before any further construction can be started or completed…Seems like builders using the ICF systems would end up having a lot of unpaid and unfinished home sites on their hands… How do they do it? — VOLUME ! —
Seems to me that it would be a great opportunity for a Pest Control Company to come into that area and set up shop and provide termite control/treatment. Frankly, it has nothing to do with ICF being “prone to terminates”… it has everything to do with the pest control companies lack of termite detection capabilities and refusal to educate themselves on other methods of detection if the “tubes” are not present. We have insane amount of termites in hot humid Florida and our pest control companies treat ICF built homes here all the time. But thank you for the heads up! Something a prospective ICF homeowner can check prior to construction.
its crazy expensive. i checked the price of icf only so i found out its is designed to kill your pocket 2 piece of 2 inch foam less then 10$ CAD. let say we made it strong and give a 50$ in total i checked the price of icf block its around 250$ each its way woo expensive to put cheap plastic in between to hold both foam if you know the prices let me know
We built our house in Northwest Arkansas and found the same thing (a bit too late to change our plans). Our neighbor happens to be a pest treatment guy and we confirmed with him and another friend of the family who is also a pest guy. They both said, bora-care treat the house after it’s framed is the only option for an ICF house that you plan to live in long term. Neighbor wouldn’t touch it, friend of the family would treat it however we wanted, but would come with an agreement that we’d never hold them accountable for termites, but they would always be willing to come to bat for us to help battle us if needed. He was also candid that it wouldn’t be cheap because they don’t half do anything. In the end, I opted to buy the stuff and treat 90% of the lumber myself. I sprayed 1:1 mixture of Bora-care from the bottom plates to the top plates, also all the sheathing and any wood subfloor and even the about 8 foot in on the ceiling joists and rafters. This is more expensive than a typical termite treatment especially considering I furnished all the labor and that wasn’t even accounted for. I’d guess the bora-care cost me about $3000. This pretty much a permanent treatment and I’m told it’s a good product. This is obviously not an option for anyone who has a house that has already been built. But it is worth noting that both my neighbor and the friend of the family told me typical termite treatments, even on normal slab and framing houses, are a racket. They don’t even charge you the amount that the materials would cost them, therefore there is no possible way they are treating it correctly.
Here in Michigan, my brother in laws house had termites. Long story short, they bored porous tubes below his foundation and do (quarterly?) gas injections which causes a gas to slowly enter the soil around the foundation. I have zero idea what this is called or any of the technicalities… but that’s what I remember him having to do.
WTF? this is a none issue with a ICF home if built correctly. Maybe there is a termite in NC that can eat thru concrete and steel but I know of any. Termites have to have a way to enter your home, wood, unsealed penetrations, and so forth. Even if a termite munched its way to the top layer of your ICF wall how can it get into your roof or attic space if you properly sealed these areas? I am about to build a 7400 sqft ICF home in Houston on a 5-acre tract that I own. I will simply consult a termite company before we get started although it’s not required in the rural county where I am building. The only permit I need is for a septic system.
Hiya Erik,just one question on the blockwork for the basement you’ve just done that article on,are you going to coat the outside of the block with anything before you backfill with the earth you dug out at the start.Keep the articles coming there very informative and also very entertaining.From a ‘still wet and windy England.Say hi to Jamie and the rest if the crew,👍
There is plenty of information available about this subject, and several YouTube articles that explain it better. Termites CANNOT eat the plastics that ICFs are made from, they can only borrow through it to get to wood sources. If you are doing your bottom plates and spacing correctly by code, you should not have any edible or untreated wood within traveling distance from the ground for termites. However, if you are afraid they might be able to use the ICFs as a means of accessing untreated wood, then you would apply a termite barrier to the outside of your ICFs during construction. BuildShield and many other companies make plastic barriers for this application, and these barriers will keep the termites out of the ICFs so they can’t use them to move around.
Eric- glad you brought that up- have been thinking ICF for a project. I’m a plumber, but didn’t think of that aspect. Also in the Deep South and keeping your bug “stuff” tight is always a good idea. You can do this sort of tutorial/ informative anytime- even on what appear to be regional things! Merry Christmas!
I am so glade you made the article, I was asking the same question when I was perusal the bock article. Could you not do just concrete header “8” to match a block height on top of any ICF blocks to give you the barrier and spot for them to see the signs of termites? I enjoy you website, that’s for putting it out there.
Even if not an issue with building inspectors, I’d still want a termite deterrent for piece of mind. With ICF, they won’t do any structural damage, but can still tunnel through (expensive) foam and degrade it’s insulation value. The solution I will use when i build an ICF house is use pango wrap by stego industries (it’s a 15 mil plastic sheet vapor/termite barrior) under the slab, and turned back up onto the wall to a height that will be slightly above the height the weep screed will be installed. You will need a plastic barrier anyways for radon and/or moisture. Also to meet code, exterior finish (thin brick veneer in my case) will need to be 6″ above grade which would result in a 6″ band of plastic showing around the perimeter. To hide this, I will simply attach a wire lath and apply a cementitious coating color matched to the brick. My thin brick will be installed on a dimple mat (dorken stone & stucco) to provide an air gap, so there is one last potential point of infiltration where the bottom of the cladding meets the weep screed. A gap is intentionally left here for air/water venting, normally people use some “plastic” foam type material as a bug guard, but termites could potentially get through this and have a path to foam, so I will use stainless steel mesh (term weep and vent barrier). So the end result is there will be a chemical free termite barrier completely under the structure and all the way up the walls, for a negligible extra cost.
Block are worse than ICF for termites once they crack. You laid only need to remove 1 foot of foam at ground level interior and exterior for inspection. Why have any structural wood? Then the termite treatment is pointless and you go less chemicals around your house. They won’t treat a house with drywall if they can’t see behind wall. Get a $250 termite license and do it your self.
There really is no reason to use blocks for residential in 2021 unless your cutting corners, like the article says, ICF only costs a little more. Blocks make garbage foundations even if you don’t compare them to reinforced concrete with built in R50 and vapor barrier. ICF foundations also absorb a lot of the ground heave in the outer foam layer making them even more resilient to cracking than traditional concrete. ICF foundations eliminate the need to build an interior frost wall, likely from wood, fiberglass, and poly if you want and insulated space, and these are much more vulnerable to pests than a solid ICF wall. There are effective methods and materials to deal with the insects that he seems unaware of, so that’s really not an issue at all if your building new. In my opinion this is more of an excuse to why he doesn’t use ICF forms rather than a valid argument against its vastly superior quality’s.
Intellectual DISHONESTY at its finest! 1. Comparing the price of R50 ICF construction to uninsulated block is intellectual dishonesty. How about being honest and compare like product? Compare IFC to block with the same insulating R- factor. 2. Your termite argument is based solely on speculation and not fact. Please prove me wrong and document just ONE example of this happening. This guy does not seem honest enough for me to believe.
Block is fine. Just spray-foam the exterior of the blocks before burying. It’s kind of an ideal place for spray foam: can’t really burn between concrete & dirt, Can’t really vent any chemicals inside, and you ideally want your insulation outside the thermal mass of the concrete. In that placement an amateur job of foaming works fine. I’m doing block with rebar every 18″, 100% fill (for in-envelope thermal mass), with 3″ sprayfoam outside it. Above ground it’s steel on steel with steel roof. And a variety of other custom features, insulation schemes, thermal mass, double roof & adjustable ventilation between… all very custom DIY. With carefully planned windows & sun angles. Pretty much everything but meteor-proof. ICF would work fine too, but you really only care about the foam on the outside for insulation. You want the inside to snuggle up with the thermal mass of the concrete ideally. And interior styro is kind of an added risk if there’s any sort of fire (styro burns like crazy & off-gasses bad stuff). The way I did it with block, the only thing which can burn is the furniture & drapes. If they made ICF with extra thick foam outside, and steel inside (for a pour barrier), I’d be all over it. Had to get all kinds of waivers though, to build a house “better” than regulation.
How times change. 80’s we used to just trench the foundation lines. drop in a foot of sand and gravel. and pour “wet” concrete.. In the 90’s, footings inspections took off. And so did a million Concrete companies specializing in foundations and basements. Mixed feelings on a single story ranch needing a $35,000 slab / foundation. Not saying do shoddy work, but talk to old timers and listen. They know what worked and why it wouldnt. just trying to convey that sometimes we overbuild as a point, not for any need or usage. Just to satisfy a checkbox on a form. And YES I also would build my new home with a proper footing, drain tile and foundation, just sharing old info…
You guys are awesome. Love your website. BUT, as has been said before here, don’t use wood. THEN,, call another exterminator. That one is either ridiculously risk averse, or ignorant. There are plenty of ways to stop subterranean termites from eating up through the foam. Easiest during construction, which I know you don’t have the option, but not a good reason to shut down a product superior to Stick and CMU. Last gasp, my 2300′ full ICF in San Diego CA is coming in lower than stick frame based on labor and materials for all trades. Faster to rough plumbing and Electric. Faster easier to drywall. FAR less insulation and framing to meet high Rvalues. Not to mention the cost of heating cooling and maintenance. Lasterer, but far from least, ICF withstands disasters that stick frame simply can’t. A stick frame can be hardened, an ICF starts that way. Remember the three little pigs? Just sayin, give your clients an honest choice for the entire project. Build a full ICF. You and your clients will learn to love it.
if its a little more.. but its insulated, is it better to do that? HOW would termites go though foam? its NOT difficult to treat the ground yourself! WHY NOT have the insulation cut back on the last 12 inches at the ground level, so the treatment can work? Can you go take the foam off or just have a layer above it? I was under the impression termites and other burrowing pests go on the OUTSIDE of the material, like block… interesting take on this. i know first hand a LOT of shady back door crap happens so if this is a legit issue then we know for a fact that some one is doing bad things??? IDK
ways to stop termites if a big company like Orkin won’t: when building, put a copper flashing extension (both the inside and outside) of the ICF top/sill plate junction, treat your foundation perimeter yourself every 10 years or less (it’s pretty inexpensive & pretty easy to do), or hire from a local small pest control company.
Thats it? the termite guy won’t wiggle on your wrangler. Seems a trivial matter to buy industrial insecticide, a tyvek suit some PPE and spray it yourself. BUT it’s good to know that would be a problem, I would not suggest it outweighs the benefit of ICF. For signage you could just take the pest control license test with your state and become a licensed practicioner then use it for your ICF builds to get your signoff.
ive owned my ICF house in Texas for 20 years ( POLYSTEEL) no issues, 6000 sq ft of quiet tornado proof living…showed my bug guy this article and he laughed his ass off said ” call another contractor”….ICF is not an issue in all of NC, ….he also says you can always do the job yourself- good luck bud
You haven’t seen anything on utube about termites and ifc? I have. Lots. And there are several solutions. Sounds more like you don’t understand iFC and so, out of ignorance, you downplay the quality and overall savings that com with IFCs. I have seen several articles of contractors rejectiong IFCs with suspect reasoning. This is just one more. For the viewers, educate yourself. Don’t rely on biased contractors to give you good information. It won’t happen.
I was given a $500 estimate for a treatment on just the house. the garage and out buildings would be extra. I bought the sprayer and chemicals off Amazon and did it for about 1/2 that including Tyvek suit and mask. Plus now I can treat every year if I need to, and I do. There is a major nest near me. This whole neighborhood is plagued with termites.
I was just reading that building code mentions external foundation insulation and termites. It implies you shouldn’t do it, but it’s pretty vague. So in theory a buiding inspector could say ICFs are not to code in your area. I’ve also heard of building inspectors not allowing (non-ICF) external foundation insulation in Minnesota…which seems crazy…because we don’t really have termites and people use ICFs all the time.
Without going through the comments to see if this has been said I would suggest the much simpler and far less expensive route of just buying Termidor, which anyone can buy, and pouring it, per the instructions, around the perimeter of the home as it’s being built. Problem solved for 10years. After a decade a small trench can be dug up around the house and pour in another round and recover. Boom good for another 10years. Hell by that time they may likely have a newer product that could be a one time application only, but for now Termidor is cheap, simple to mix and pour, and is good for 10yrs. It’s the same chemical they use, but with the grace of the internet, it’s been made available to us. Not trying to put bug spraying companies out of business but even they’ll admit, if being honest, that it’s a ridiculous cost that can handled by a 7yr old kid!
I grew up in SOCAL in the 60’s / 70’s, my childhood home was built in 1920 of stone, shuttered windows and clay tile roof. It’s still there. Subdivisions have come and gone in the mean time as people build houses of highly flammable materials on top of hills. Look at last week. Those of us who know better would never have a home where those folks did. Just watch, they will repeat the cycle again, and again, and again.
That’s messed up! ICF is a far superior build. Yes, more expensive up front, but costs are recovered in heat/ air savings. Perhaps just the one corp got sued and refuses? There has to be a solution the building department accepts? Most build codes accept diy solutions, is this an option? Apologies for all the questions as I’m a big fan of icf. Cheers!
Mr. Perkins needs to get himself some Termidor SC, but certainly an ICF syem could be made with a termite shield/break which could just be one block that has solid blocking instead of foam on the exterior side that gets installed just above grade- polyethylene or fiber cement, for example, in place of the foam on the exterior side- then you just need to order the appropriate linear footage of the “termite shield blocks” to account for your foundation perimeter. Using existing product, I don’t see why you couldnt cut the foam and glue in a few layers of Hardibacker strips a few inches wide, post-cure, to solve the problem.
One company? How many others refused? Will they refuse other foam insulated foundations as well? Install a termite shield between ICF & sill plate or leave a couple inch gap between the foam and sill plate so they can observe any activity. You know you can buy Termidor SC on Amazon? 6×6″ trench around the foundation, I drilled deeper holes every 6″; plenty of youtubes on DIY treatment using the professional chemicals.
I’ve had an ICF house for 15 years now, and I would never build one any other way. I don’t believe there’s a termite issue. The structural components of the house are made from reinforced concrete, and plastic foam. Neither of which, termites like to eat. In addition, any wood on my house is 15ft in the air. I have also noticed, with ICF all the way from the footings, to the top sill plate, no bugs get in. It’s really quite noticeable compared to a stick built house. 15 years and not a single roach.
Just saw this and I am having the same problem in Gulf Breeze FL. My house is ICF construction in 2004. Only in 2020 the pest control company I used from day one would not renew the termite bond. No one else will touch my house. ICF and Icynene insulation in the attic. I need help too. I want to sell and I will have a problem if I can’t resolve this situation. ANYONE have any information to help me???
I wonder if you can contact the ICF company that you prefer and see if they are willing to do a termite chemical impregnation in possibly the outer foam (I don’t think you want the inner foam extrusion to be a possible health hazard for people). I can’t help but think that if this is a major issue that prevents builders from using ICF, then it must be in the company’s best interest to solve this issue. And in my limited engineering knowledge, I would think it must be possible to add a chemical to the foam formulation that is anti-termite.
I own and operate a pest control company. 16years Sounds suspicious. Why not protect someone’s home from wood destroying organisms? A finished basement or slab home has the same problem. Building materials blocking view from where the foundation meets the supporting walls. Maybe North Carolina has laws that prohibit the use of termiticide without active termites present during inspection of the structure or your pest control company has been burned by icf home they treated and later had termite problems? Every state is different. Every building material and building practice has been studied and has a way to treat for the prevention and protection of wood destroying organisms even ICF. I would call the “North Carolina Department of Agriculture” and ask them what you should do to protect your home and then make a followup article. They are the highest authority for your state that can answer your question on termites and ICF. Other considerations would be a well, pond, stream or river within 50 feet of the structure. Kill wildlife or poison people and kiss that pest control business good bye.
So what i’m hearing is you need to. >dig down lets say 6 inch under grade surrounding the ICF’s >Remove the Insulating portion of the IFC down to said 6 inch below grade. >Form and pour some nice insulating foamcrete up to the base plate. >Refinish as normal pored concrete wall tying into the foam board below as necessary. >Reestablish grade so now from 6 inch below grade to sill plate you have what for all intensive purposes a standard concrete/block foundation. Foamcrete visually indifferent from concrete, should be as insect proof as concrete, still insulates like the foam board.
ICF masks too many problems too, if you have dodgy subcontractors doing the concrete steel rebar mightnt be in place, voids in concrete too can be a problem, i works on a couple of five story apartment blocks, it cost the company many thousands to fix, we used like 300 or more bags of specialist grout to fill the voids left behind,
I own a pest control company in Texas, so I don’t know termite law where you are at. This comment may be a little late and if your just looking for peace of mind. I would recommend Trelona ATBS advance termite baiting system, works great, green product and you can find them online. Also they are right about the termites, but I would have offered you an the ATBS alternative. Hope this helps someone, Best of luck.
You are correct about the ICF blocks and this is because white foam is an invitation for termites. However, I am a GC in Arizona and I use a system that can be treated because of the way the blocks are produced. The block is termite PROOF. Yes PROOF. Termites will not bother this system and it has to do with the way it is produced and it is absolutely superior to other blocks because of design. Greg
Yeah I despise block basements… If blocks were offset and tied together with a rebar system, then cement filled and ancored to the framing THEN it may be acceptable. That should both prevent the walls from collapsing in and tie down the framing. Why not use ICF with only the interior of the walls being insulated below ground?
Not just termites. Black carpenter ants eat their way through foam. One sunning day I was sitting in my greenhouse; its ceiling was insulated with spray foam. The ceiling foam is exposed inside the greenhouse. The greenhouse has steel panel roof and walls and 2×6 stud walls, covered and sealed with roof felt and house wrap, like a standard house. The stud walls sit on a concrete pad, abut to concrete driveway and patio. The greenhouse is dry inside and is completely above ground. All of a sudden, I saw a bunch of white flakes floating down from the ceiling then heard a series of faint scratching noises above me. I looked up and saw nothing unusual, except the floating flakes and the faint sound. I climbed up a ladder to the 10 feet high ceiling and saw big carpenter ants went in and out of a tiny hole in the spray foam. I yanked that piece of foam out and ran outside to get rid as much ants as I could. There were many. They made a nest in the foam. I brought and put ant baits all the way around outside as well as inside every year for several years after and has not had a problem. I have no idea how carpenter ants got in. However, since then, I sealed all crevices and holes I could find that could let in ants or other bugs.