What Are The Average Salaries For Interior Designers In New York?

I am a retired contractor of 30+ years, all of this was true 40 years ago too and probably always will be 40 years in the future! lol! Customers are even more demanding now though, and with such high costs for everything these days I can’t blame them. But it is really not fair for them to make you break down all of your costs so they can then figure out ways to manipulate you and your business. Only you can ensure your business is successful, not a customer…..I only gave bids or worked time and materials, I never once gave a price breakdown for a customer for a bided job and always had work. Never let a customer in any business dictate anything to you about running YOUR own business! Some contractors have learned to use this idea of breaking down costs to their advantage by actually breaking things down but being dishonest about the real costs of that breakdown! Skewing such in a way they believe might help them to fool the customer and land them the job! Customers then believe they are getting the “honest” guy because he was willing to break the costs down for them, but they are really getting the most dishonest guy…..lol! How many customers have to break down their own jobs for their customers at their place of employment, not many. Do you ask Apple to break down their costs of an I-Phone before you buy one? Or how about that new car or boat? That would be silly right? It’s a silly idea and one that can be used to manipulate each other on both ends of the deal. Just agree to a fair price and let the contractor worry about the details!

One thing people never take into account is your equipment cost. People used to come into my shop and explain that what they wanted me to do for them was simple and quick. Sure, I’ll just go do that using these four machines that cost me x amount of dollars. It takes me whatever amount of time because I spent money on expensive equipment.

If you’re giving a quote vs an estimate, then this practice is TOTALLY OK. I am a customer that asks for break downs when I get ESTIMATES, because I want to know when there is an overrun, what I can expect before the request comes….and to assure that I’m not just being asked for more money without clear reason. I have no problem paying more when there are material overages (not due to flagrant waste) or more complex repairs. But I’ve also witnessed a contractor (one bad apple) that would give an estimate, then ask for more to complete the job once the demo was done and the job half finished. Unfortunately, these bad apples make customers skeptical.

I learned in the early 80s that handing a broken-down bid to a prospective customer is akin to handing them a shopping list. I found this out when calling the prospect after not hearing from him for two weeks. He had taken my sound system design and equipment list, and given it to someone else, and let them do exactly what I had proposed doing. That was a hard lesson for me.

A few years ago when I legitimised my moving company, I thought average worker’s comp rates of $20 per $100 was crazy but then I happened to look at what roofers and other construction trades were paying in my state for the insurance. Then I finally figured out why there are so many under-the-radar outfits operating.

You make some good points. I had an hvac tech try and charge me $1000 to replace my capacitor. Not knowing anything about it, i asked him to break down the cost. He hem’d and haw’d for a bit, not really explaining the process. I told him i would think about it and sent him in his way. Come to find out, it’s a $30 part that took me 10 minutes to swap out. So if you ask me, yes, there is a problem with not breaking down the price.

You are absolutely right sir. I know nothing about the contractor business but I did work as a successful business to business sales rep and trainer many years ago. If you give them a bid, you have one objection to overcome. If you break out the job charges, you’ve now got a dozen or more objections to overcome. You’ve just made closing the sale an order of magnitude harder when you didn’t have to. I could sell a job and close a sale with a flat guaranteed rate 100x easier and more successfully than having every little thing broken out. “We guarantee our quality and guarantee our price. If we run into any unforeseen issues and have to do more work than we anticipated, which sometimes happens on jobs, we guarantee not to charge you one single penny more than we promised. Is that peace of mind something you’d like to have on all work that’s done for you? It is?, great, would you like us to start on Monday the 13th or Tuesday the 21st?” Then get the agreement signed along with the deposit and let them know you’re eager to see them bright and early Monday morning. (They’ll pick the earlier day of the two days you give them).

As a painter, I separate my materials cost because the difference in cost from a premium paint vs. the cheap paint can be huge – $90 vs. $35 a gallon. Imagine needing 10 gallons for a job and that difference can be $500 or more. I prefer to use the premium but will use mid-grade if I – and the client – decide on that.

Great explanation, and you have confirmed why I will not work with someone who will not break down a bid. As a good businessman, you will always build in some padding for contingencies. And in a normal job with no or few problems, which should be more common, you will make a larger profit than anticipated. I bet you rarely if ever eat extra costs on a job. If you do, you did a poor job on calculating your bid and you would likely be out of business soon. But you make a good point. Some customers want a fixed price and are unwilling share in the risk that the contractor has. You are the man for them.

I always buy material. I’m and electrician by trade. I just had a heat pump installed, I bought the units and all metal duct. Problem is I’m very particular, I buy the best material and most contractors buy the cheapest thing possible, I’m the opposite. Plus contractors mark material up too much. It also helps that I get most stuff cheaper than what every residential contractor can buy it. I’m old, 90% of contractors aren’t very trustworthy. I charge $100 an hour cash, or $150 an hour with check. Fence builders are laborers, they are the lowest skill base which equals lowest pay. They shouldn’t make same as electrician or a plumber that has to have licenses and lots of insurance. A decent contractor will always break down a bid, the contract should state what materials being used, it’s called scope of work.

I have a one man cabinetshop, with a part time helper for delivery and install. My process may be different than that of a GC. I price each group of cabinets so the customer knows where the money is going. I’ve not had an issue with someone coming back and nickel and dimeing me. I try to keep things simple, straightforward and honest.

In your scenario, the customer couldn’t possibly have any legitimate questons and good intentions — and contractor couldn’t possibly be anything but a salt of the earth shining example of an honest tradesman? I have no problem admitting that there are lots of lousy, nit picky, indecisive, borderline abusive customers out there. But… Why can’t contractors also acknowledge that a lot of their problems — and the customer demands for more transparency — are self created because there are so many terrible, lazy, borderline criminal contractors out there? Contractors always play victim and do this pearl clutching routine like their customers just don’t value them and at the same time play dumb like they have no idea where in the world these concerns are coming from. Spoiler alert — it’s because your industry has an often well deserved reputation for being shady as hell.

Years ago I owned a business as the distributor of aftermarket auto body parts. We sold true wholesale, jobber and discount retail. Many retail customers actually purchased more parts than many of our first line wholesale accounts. When a retail customer needed to do a major repair to their car, we organized what they needed and gave them one single price as a batch price. Nothing was itemized. Itemizing to retail or wholesale only leads to being nickeled and dime. We sharpened our pencils and gave killer upfront deals. It worked. We were super successful and even the wholesale customers wondered how we could sell at that price. The answer was, they never learned. Package pricing is an either take it or leave it. Figure was is very profitable for you and a great deal for the customer. There is no reason to expose how you arrived at the bottom line.

Glad it works for you. Both my brothers are contractors and there’s no justification for markup on materials beyond the time spent getting them. If you need to add costs to material to cover your overhead, then you simply need to increase your labor rates. I would never accept a bid that doesn’t include a material breakdown. I have a lot of connections to get discounts on lots of materials. Example, I can get 60% off on a wide variety of decking materials, windows and doors. There’s lots of people that have random connections like this who still rely on contractors for work. Now maybe you would work with a reasonable customer that explains that they have access to massive discounts like that. Maybe not. I’m just glad I have two brothers to do this kind of work with/for me at a simple and fair labor rate. (we don’t do family discounts for work that we do professionally)

I’m a homeowner and I managed subcontractors for 30 years on state and private projects. I’ve encountered way more “shady” contractors than honest. In this fencing example, it’s too easy to bid for 50 posts, use 40 and keep 10. Pretty soon the contractor has his house fenced for free by his clients. I knew a contractor who paved his 275 ft. driveway with this method on a state job. You can’t just leave the extra paving materials at the site. Thanks, tax payers! Nah. Get a few bids and ask for a few key break-out items. I agree with other commenters that you’ll come across way less “shady” by providing some line items, thereby building a solid reputation that results in getting more work.

We have worked with several GC firms and if they can’t provide rough breakdowns we move onto the next. We gut renovated two adjacent buildings in 2019 and our architect and the contractor were very resistant to upfront costs and transparency. Now we are onto a larger commercial renovation and we did not call them to bid on the project because of this lack of transparency. However, if this system works for you that is good but I think most GC firms are comfortable providing cost breakdowns.

Hey Man! Just stumbled upon your website. I’m not a GC, but am a specialized contractor. I polish natural stone and concrete and install concrete coatings. Recently I had a potential customer ask for information on the stain and sealer we were going to use on their floor . I reluctantly sent product pdfs knowing he was probably just trying to figure out product costs and haven’t heard anything back, so it’s most likely for the best !

I give a general breakdown but don’t give too many details. I’ve noticed my clients have fewer questions and feel they can trust me. Communication of why I charge what I do is pretty easy. I fully agree with you on not using customer supplied materials. It has never worked out. There is always something missing or a wrong size or they got some cheap junk that won’t last a week. If I can do a little extra with some existing materials they have on site is always a nice surprise for them.

in my 25 years in flooring you are 100 percent right about everything you said. I thought no one would understand these things like you explained. Ive had customers get angry w me for not breaking down price. I look them in their faces and tell them they can get someone else. funny thing 9 times outta 10 they come back i do the job and their happy telling me how they hated me at first but afterwards saw how awesome of company i have. I dont let anyone push me or my employees around. I am extremely honest and upfront. We are not slaves. we are skilled workers and will be treated as such. You dont like it kick rocks. I also tell them when they go get jose from home depot parking lot to not call me to fix it. Places doubt in their minds and considers your companies contractor license and insurance ect is there for a reason.

How about, charge the proper labor rate and don’t try and make any money on the material? Then break the bid to what it should be so the customer can be sure of what materials they are actually buying. unless you’re trying to scam. As a customer my problem is always, I pay a lump sum price and get the cheapest possible materials or whatever is laying around or “good enough”. I hate that, and it why I DIY as much as possible.

I wish I had seen this article 14 years ago when i was getting into this. i didn’t have the confidence (or experience) to just come up with a price so I gave a breakdown estimate to the customer as my way of coping. Ended up being a lot of work and not much help. I don’t think I ever thought of the differance between and esimate and a bid either. If I did it again I would follow this example. It makes more sense.

Necessary good points. I also just submit a bid (most of the time). When I was much younger, one or two customers wanted to buy the materials… say in this instance paint. They would go buy some Big Lot paint. Took me additional coats (labor) to use the cheap paint. Learned quickly that I must specify which paint if they went this route. But most jobs are construction and needing multiple types of materials, most customers prefer you get the stuff after they went and bought the wrong stuff on a several occasions. And you are right about the hourly wage mindset… especially if you are in a saturated market. People don’t realize your 40-50 dollar an hour wage (25+ year experience and efficiency) does not compare to the guy who hasn’t been doing it very long. They don’t see the loss (or breakeven) on other jobs nor all the time gathering, cleaning, owning equipment/supplies before and after their job. And something hardly ever discussed on a larger job… is knowing the best materials to use from different suppliers. Only time and experience teaches a quality contractor this aspect. Plus, you pay your own insurances, no business contributes to your retirement, etc… all the perks they get working for someone else. *I don’t mark up materials, but a contractor should make sure the time taken to gather what they need is figured in. Lately since I work for good clients, I often tell them the labor cost separately.

I’m in a situation now where we used a bypass door that the customer provided. It’s a mirrored door that rides on tracks on wheels that are just rubber o-rings. One of the O-rings was missing. Well, it’s got two tracks, one on the head jam, one on the floor. The floor is tile so I wasn’t going to drill holes through the tile and install the bottom track before we knew we were going to actually use the door. Nobody local had these O-rings, of course, so that meant two weeks waiting on the customer to find the part, and get it here. Since it’s a by pass door that meant we have to case that opening out, and if the customer provided door wasn’t going to work out he mentioned going with a standard 60″ double door, which means we can’t case it out, or put any base down on any of those walls. Not using customer provided materials is definitely a good tip.

I think this advice is arguable depending on the field and scope of work and materials. I do estimates alot of bathroom remodels, there are choices customers can make on materials and diff types of waterproofing. When they choose an expensive tpye of shower system vs a cheaper one, the material estimate helps explain the mark up on the job. Also with showers or jobs that have potential water damage it’s always disclosed on the estimate that there is a potential for additional work and materials and that those issues will be discussed and addressed upon discovery. Last thing I want to do is remove a shower to find out it needs to be reframed, subfloor and joists repaired or replaced, then the job takes longer becomes more expensive timelines shift expectations change, for me its best to disclose the potential and scope of things that may be unforseen, that being said I don’t break down every little detail.

Yeah, good luck getting work that way, I’m a GC for commercial contractor, right now I’m working on an $11 million dollar project, most of our work is open book with repeat customers. The company has been growing for 50 years and cannot hire fast enough. Being open and honest with the customer and developing a relationship of trust is very important. And if you make a blunder and miss something, good luck proving it to the customer if you never broke down the bid. Breaking down the bid shows how complex and important your role is and demonstrates whether or not you know what it actually takes to do the job. Be sure to include all the overhead, mileage, tools, dumpsters, insurance, labor, permits, taxes, profits, etc…. When the job is 2 months long and you compare your profits to their income, they most likely will realize they are getting a good deal. Odds are they are getting multiple bids, and if the other bidders refuse to break theirs down and you will, it demonstrates an ability to communicate clearly and concisely, something very important to people who probably don’t understand construction very much.

CONSUMERS BEWARE! 1.Never pay for the whole project up front. Use an escrow account to release the funds as sections of the project are completed. 2. Request a materials spec sheet to avoid sub standard work. Be present at EVERY code building inspection, and don’t be shy to ask the inspector questions. The inspector is there to protect YOU (not the contractor). 3. Ask the contractor for Proof Of Insurance & License #s, and check to make sure it’s up to date. 4. Get a WRITTEN contract signed by the person authorized to do so. 5. Demand a BID. NEVER an estimate!! That’s just a way to pad the price! 6. Every project has two prices: The one the contractor hopes for, and the one they will settle for. 7. Get bids from several contractors. 8. Ask for referrals and check online reviews. Remember the contractor is working for YOU. It’s your money!

My question and somewhat problem is that a firm fixed bid never seems negotiable under any circumstances. For example, if a plumber hires a general contractor to do a bath remodel in his own home but figures he can save some money by doing the pipe work himself doesn’t that warrant a lower bid by the GC?

I’ve done lots of small handyman kinds of jobs, and I only bid a lump sum for the reasons you give. It saves so much headache! And often I find I bid too low (I’m usually working by myself) and kick myself. But that’s my problem, and I just try to bid better next time. And then once in awhile you get that sweet job that goes smoother and faster than expected. Yippee!

Personally I like to see a breakdown. Then I can decide if the value makes sense for me and I can add or subtract different things. Oftentimes they charge a lot for materials that aren’t my first choice. I can usually get something I’m happier with if I source it. For example, I recently did a bathroom remodel and I wanted nicer tiles than the contractors were using. We communicated every step of the way and I bought what the contractor told me to buy in terms of square footage. I actually provided a lot of the materials and nothing was missing. Just took good communication.

Good info. I do business jet maintenance and we have to do full breakdown on pricing and labor travel etc. I have houses and land and only accept a bid with labor/material breakdowns. I always pay fair and know what concrete, electrical, framing etc cost per foot or yard because I do a lot of work myself. Most people just don’t know what it takes hour wise, or equipment rental, labor rental so they get cheap. I like to pay cash for labor and charge parts. Everyone is different

I absolutely agree with everything you mentioned in your article! I have built and sold storage units (sheds) for years and ran into the same issues that you talk about. I also learned NOT to breakdown my bids as well. I do list everything that will go into the building that I will be providing and give a total cost, but that is it. I have learned the hard way, that if I give a price breakdown, they will give my bid to another business, so that they could beat me on the price. Why don’t customers ask a doctor for a price breakdown when they go to the hospital for surgery? They will simply pay a doctor or dentist any amount of money that they request, with no questions asked. They will not ask for a breakdown and find ways on their own to cut costs. I also learned, that if people get a loan or insurance to pay you, then they will not really care how much a project costs, but if they are paying you out of their pocket then they will be concerned about every little thing.

It is extremely difficult to be a responsible entrepreneur nowadays. From being on both sides of your scenario. I always want a breakdown of material mm thickness (pvc, ethylene, ect), amount of material, and now I think it may be necessary for a referral. On this most recent job I am contracting, I requested 4″ green pipe up front. Contractor tried to sneak in black corrugated, after discussion returned and came back with 3″ white corrugated with internal ethylene, after another discussion he agreed to the written bid. Plus the gutters have 4″ square downspouts, so suprised this contractor didn’t pay attention to this detail. That being said once I establish a relationship of trust with a contractor we don’t require as much detail as I can figure costs on my end pretty easy.

For all the people on this thread who think contractors are trying to steal or cheat you by not giving you all of their business information in a broken down bid, you clearly have never run a business. You clearly don’t understand the costs associated. You clearly don’t respect or value the level of time, dedication, schooling, and investment it takes to be a well qualified professional in any business. I would challenge you to go to any other retail business and ask for a breakdown. I’ll wait! Go ahead. Ask your local gas station for a breakdown of their pricing or better yet, go ask the people at your favorite restaurant to itemize your bill beyond the generic check you pay the tab against. Here’s a good one: take your own steak next time you’re out on a date and ask the chef to make it for you! See how far that gets you. You don’t have the b*lls to even attempt it! If you think that anyone who busts their ass to provide top notch professional service to you wants to race to the bottom of the pile of estimates you are gathering, you are wrong. If you think that you “allowing” us to have the honor of providing a 5 Star product or service at your 1 Star price is enticing or that you behaving like you don’t trust our ethics gets us super excited to work for you…seriously? I’m not protecting every contractor full stop. There are bad contractors. Those who are unprofessional, unqualified, and unworthy of earning your business. I encourage everyone to know who you are hiring, but asking for a breakdown after the estimate is given is low class.

It’s a different market, but in software our company always provides a single price for the major items: development, training and implementation, support / maintenance, etc., without a detailed breakdown. There are so many people who want to challenge every aspect of things they don’t understand. Or they want to cheap out on a critical item like training. We are a premium supplier and our prices reflect that. We don’t win everything we bid. But we also don’t have to spend our time working with cheapskates who make the project a nightmare with their penny pinching. And like Mark says, if we bid $60,000 and it takes us a lot more effort to get the job done, we eat it, because we view ourselves as the experts that should know what the project entails. As long as there’s no scope-creep, we live with the price we originally bid.

One time I let a homeowner do ‘sweat equity’ where he was going to split the labor with me. Instead he spoke on his cell phone non-stop, didn’t know what he was doing, took long lunch breaks in his house, got too hot and took long breaks, etc. When the project was finished he wanted to knock off 50% for his supposed equal labor. Actually, he did about 10% but I let him get away with 20% — and I never did that again.

Good article and mostly agree, so my two cents to add to info you provided. (40 yrs in the business) When you only do one trade such as fencing, roofing or painting, there is absolutely no reason to break down the scope of work. However if you are doing fencing and you are painting that fence you are installing, then the fence should be 1 line item and the painting work another line item. Never separate material and labor costs. When you do that, the job almost automatically becomes a time and material job and there is no money in time and material jobs. Only insecure contractors “like” doing T&M, contractors that aren’t confident in estimating and/or knowing their costs. T&M should only be done when there isn’t a way to define a scope of work, materials needed and how long it’s going to take. Basically service work. We only do commercial and most of our estimates and bids are broken down into categories mainly because our billing is percent complete. We basically break out by trade and then break out those trades costs a little farther. Electrical is $10,000.00 then under than is would be something like “Electrical Service $4000.00” “Lighting $4000.00” “Branch circuits $2000.00” It allows us to easier identify what work we are billing for for that month and also helps the Owner or Architect to better define what scope of work is done and being billed for

You also don’t tell customers about supply cost that you have to cover in your labor rate. You have equipment that you use on the job that has a “life” and hence cost and you also have to have a way to get to the job site and that is often just rolled into the labor rate. Tools need service and other maintenance expense (like keeping chains sharp for tree trimmers) that are REAL expenses. You also have “accounting/office” expenses and tax preparers that have REAL expense that you don’t bill the customer for specifically; usually, contractors running a business that all has “overhead” that has to be covered by revenue that is usually covered by the labor rate. Your $50/hr rate may end up only $10/hr going to the person who did the labor. Then there are other costs such as insurance and business and other taxes that reduce the “Net profit” to actually pay for workers labor. Nuff said for info for anyone who never ran a business and have it pay for all the REAL costs of doing business. Best wishes.

The reason why customers want an itemize is that some contractors over charge people far and above and done some not ethical work. If the contractor is taken to court, the judge wants to see the contract and breakdown. Then the infectious price gouging starts and soon many contractors out price themselves. Even businesses and Gov must have breakdown for a fortitude of reasons. What happens if working a project and there are more add on or damage. So many variables involved, what kind of wire you are running, fixture types, doors, windows, tile, paint and so on. As a customer, are you installing substandard or cheap products? But I do see your point on one price also.

I wouldn’t say don’t break your bid down but what he’s saying is kinda correct. I do estimating for a living. We do show pricing for different line items but it has our labor material and back end financials all incorporated into it. We never break it down past that. This is what it costs per ft or per item. At the end of the day an estimate is here is what I think it’s going to cost. And the customer can take it out leave it. Unless the scope changes we shouldn’t have change orders or credits. I tell my customers we don’t let them purchase materials due to warranty (1 year). If they select an inferior product we don’t want to be held liable for it. Lastly when it comes to the customer credit thing from 19 to 20 posts. In the industry we call this economy of scale. If you start pulling things out of our bid I may have to increase costs on the remaining items to make the numbers pencil out. There’s nothing wrong the take it out leave it pricing. What people don’t realize is your taking all the risk of unknowns and problems. That is also baked into the cake and at my company most of this is baked into the financials. Some jobs do well and some do bad and these help even them out

LOL! My name is Marc Olson, hence the Marco-The-Hammer nickname my boss gave me because I’m adamant bout getting ‘things’ correct. A bit o’ OCD? I was a parking lot/traffic control painting contractor for many years. When I was starting out and about 20 years old, a customer asked how I made up the estimate. I told him each item painted or installed had an individual charge. When he specifically asked about the line striping, I told him (the truth – silly me) it was calculated by the foot. Being the professional a**hole he was, he told me he wanted the parking stall lines stopped 3 feet away from the curb the vehicle tire would touch when it was parked. Being young and dumb…, caught off-guard, I couldn’t really argue with him about it and proceeded to adjust my bid accordingly. I finished the job grudgingly. A typical stall line is 18′ long and I was going through the same time consuming process for lay-out on new parking areas whether the stripe was 5′ or 20′. Every job after that was charged as an individual job and stall lines were charged the same whether they were 10′ or 20′ long (I always calculated for for 20′ stall lines, even though most were 18′ long). I never broke down the details again, except for the number of each item, but without a charge per item. If questioned about the charge for ‘each’ item, I told the customer that the number of all the items total, created the basis for the charge per item, and a stall line was a stall line, no matter how long it was, unless it was for re-striping.

Does anyone know a good software where I can punch in my exact labor and material rates for my bookkeeping while hiding all of it into a lump sum on the customer’s end? I know in the old school Quickbooks for desktop you can do complex things like that but I’m wondering if there’s another good one out there since QBD isn’t on the market anymore.

Being a contractor is far more mentally taxing than anyone realizes. It seems like the actual work done is about 25% of the job. The rest of is bidding, planning, job costing, coordinating, sequencing, and on top of that, you have to be a salesman, an educator, and a coach. It’s nuts. I enjoyed my contracting experience MUCH more when I found jobs working for property managers, far from the general public. More profitable too.

I’m disappointed but not surprised by a lot of the comments from consumers on here. In my 30 years as a contractor my experience has told me that these people are those that hire the cheapest contractor and then get fuming mad and try to sue because they’re not “getting what they paid for”. This is exactly why you hire a reputable contractor and most reputable contractors will not itemize a bid because they’ve been burned on it in the past and know better and know exact what it takes to make a living. The consumer is responsible just as much as the contractor for being honest and using common sense in any transaction. I’ve had many customers in the past tell me I was too high and some even yell at me because they felt insulted by my price. Then they go on to hire the cheapest bid and end up pulling their hair out only to call me back begging me to fix the problem and expecting a discount because they don’t have the money to finish it. By then my schedule is full and can’t help them. Why would I want to help them anyway especially when they’re expecting a discount to make up for their lack of judgment in the first place? They knew the price was suspiciously low and yet went ahead anyway.

I lose interest when I give an estimate for a job and am asked to break it down. Seems material and labor they think they can decrease. Labor is set I need to make a living and pay my help. Only thing that can change the price is less efficient equipment. Material is expensive and it’s impossible to know everything needed before starting a project. Need working capital for the unknown

I too stopped giving breakdowns! Glad to see this article support my intuition. My reason was just because I didn’t think the customer had a right to know my income any more than I should know theirs. I also stopped using customer materials because of the overhead I was losing and the problems that the customers created by not getting the materials right. I sure would love to hear your thoughts on charging for estimates/bids. Especially for a guy starting a new business and does not have the same income flow to override lost wages due to free bids.