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📹 Which is Better PEX A or PEX B | Pressure Test
Which is Better PEX A or PEX B | Pressure Test When it comes to plumbing, there are a lot of options. In this video, we take a look …
📹 What are the most reliable models of Bosch HVAC systems? | Atticman HVAC
Meet the Bosch Inverter Packaged Heat Pump (IDP). With all of the benefits of Bosch Inverter Ducted Split systems now in a single …
I like those tests you done, but now do me a favor and take each of them and put them under 200psi pressure outside for a year. I like to see which will fail the Florida brutal heat in the sun and in the shade side. Because I got in the last 10 years over 1000 PEX A which failed for customers under mobile homes and around the homes on the exterior alone. And it’s the fitting which fails not the pipe. So the bigger thing we learned is for Florida’s heat don’t use expansion material for the fittings instead used stainless crimp rings instead.
id lover to see a freeze test, on both pex a and b. highest pressure in a home ive tested as a service plumber is 180psi. i have also done multiple repipes in pex type a through attics, i would like to see a simulation of a freeze break on a hot and cold line in your chamber. maybe you can install another Pex a male adapter on the other side of the chamber with a cap on the outside in some sort of black iron so you have more surface area on the test pipe itself. Thanks roger
Pex-B is definitely tougher but also flexible so I prefer it. However a 1″ Pex-B line is miserable to deal with so I prefer Pex-A if I have to do a lot of bends inside a house with a 1″ line. But you also shouldn’t put PEX-A in the ground. So with houses I spec a 1″ Pex-B line coming off of the 3/4″ or 1″ main. Inside the house I will run a 1″ line all the way to filtration, water heater, etc. and then branch off for fixtures. I never put more than one fixture on a 1/2″ line with Pex-B. Zero problems out of this approach and Uponor won’t change my mind.
As someone who uses strictly pex a I use expansion connections and crimp connections. Since pex a is able to use both style connections can we see a pex a pipe with the crimp connections to see what it burst at. I’m curious to know if the expansion weakens the pipe that much or if the pipe itself if that much weaker
This test doesn’t really do much because as you said, when are you going to exceed pressures that high in a residential or even a commercial plumbing application? The real test would be when it bursts under freezing temperatures. That’s really the difference between the two types of pex. That’s what I want to see. Which one will behave better in a colder (below freezing) mountainous residential environment?
I had an entire 2 story house freeze in Connecticut. The only thing that burst were the copper sections near the on demand heater. The entire house was plumbed with Viega PureFlow Pex B. That’s all of the water and radiant floors. Zero failures. The tenant shut the heat off in the summer and the pipes burst the day after Christmas due to good insulation. The whole house had to be gutted.
I have always expanded the joint like you did where I bottom the tool out and then expand a few more times. I recently read on nibco or upponor installation instructions (can’t remember which one) that you should only expand it one time after it bottoms out. They said it can over expand the joint. 95%+ of my upponor connections have been fine and didn’t leak but it made me wonder if I over expanded the joint on the few that did leak.
I love pex b and Zurn style pex fittings because of how fast/cheap/easy it is but it is certainly inferior to and expanded pex a joint that is full bore. Zurn style pex fittings restrict flow and fuck up pipe sizing. Also you have the potential for a venturi at every tee. Its really possible to get strong suction out of a branch line that could create backflow issues when draining the system.
First time viewing your website, even though pex-b performed at higher PSI, I would have to ag😮ree with the plumbers psi would not get that high. If I was an installer I would still choose pex-a because the pressure would never get that high like not even close. So the difference in flexibility would be the determining Factor. PEX a would be my overall choice for ease of installment
There is legit no reason to use Pex B for the most part, unless you are working in a home that already has it. Uponor is rated for the expansion rings AND crimp rings. Uponor is more durable during freezing events, more flexible, easier to run in long distances or around bends. This test is interesting, but ultimately irrelevant, espically considering the highest PSI you will ever find in any given residential or commercial application is rarely higher than 130 PSI, and is most often in the range of 40-120 PSI.
Frozen water in a confined space exert a tremendous amount of pressure per square inch as many home and business owners found out in Texas a couple of years ago. PEX could have saved many of them a lot of trouble and money. Didn’t really care for the test or article until I started thinking about the total use of the information. Thanks
RW team, could you do a article discussing the recent developments in micro tears in PEX-a from chlorine and UV exposure. We have started to see more and more of these leaks in “New” construction homes. Common denominator PEX-A, fractures at the expansion joint on the pipe near the ring and fractures on bends near exterior walls all on the hot side. I have dozens of physicals samples in the past two years.
I’ve been more curious about the service life of PEX vs copper. I’ve recently been shopping houses, and it seems the proliferation of PEX is limiting the lifespan of the house compared to copper. I understand the benefits of installing PEX, but replumbing a house isn’t a trivial task, especially when the piping looks like a plate of spaghetti, as many new-builds do. What is your take on longevity?
Im not surprised, Pex B expands when frozen, then goes back to its original shape, weve never had a problem with it, even when it gets down to minus 40 in Canada. Pex A dosent seem to last as long and for some reason gets hard a brittle over time, maybe it has something to do with the chloromine gas they use to sanitize water.
I bought a roll of Uponor Pex A for a project that I never got around to. I was concerned about UV exposure so I stored it in a trash bag. When I pulled it out to use it it was seriously discolored and had yellow splotches on it. Not exactly confidence inspiring so I am now leaning towards the Pex B that is certified to use with f1960 expansion like Zurn and Sioux Chief.
Pipes in my bathroom freeze every winter when temps get into the negatives. I plan on rerouting the pipes under the house instead of inside the wall. I have Pex A and the pipes always thaw out and work just fine when the temps get back into the single digits. I prefer Pex A because it does not restrict the flow of water at the fittings like Pex B does.
Several things I noticed, one you used the same color pipe. Might have been better to use the two colors so people know the difference. Also I noticed all the failures were close to the ends. Is this just a freak coincidence or is there a problem with the fitting installation weakening the pipe (yea does it really matter at 10 times normal pressure). Matt Risinger also did a test like this (actually he was testing fittings) and his also failed near the fittings. Curious if this is something to investigate further.
I’m not a fan of pex pipes. They don’t work good for winner where I’m from. I like copper Soderen R brazen. I don’t like sharp bites. I don’t like pressed. There’s nothing wrong with the old school way. Cause it works fine. The new stuff don’t work with that great. Anything new these days? They engineer, even on vehicles. It’s just garbage
Try using zurn pex b with pex a style fittings the zurn pipe is actually formulated to be expanded even thou its a b pex blend pex a i have started hearing it is having simmilar issues as quest used to because the color coating on pex a when it is put on it cooks out some chemical that makes it resist clorine corrosion so in my house i actually used expansion fittings with zurn pex b to hopefully mitigate the pipe issue with pex a that could be why upanor stopped color coating there pipes ive noticed they have all been comming in clear but idk thats all my opinion probly should look into thou and srry about spelling
PEX -A is has lots of defects, if you examine the inside surface, especially uponor has lot of issues. PEX B much more rigid and uniform, looks perfect on all surfaces. If you’re worried about losing pressure just use 1 inch or 3/4 inch PEX-B. Only difficult part is getting the rings in perfect position and cutting bent PEX-B Square Perfect.
It’s not about max psi. These are high enough. For freezing conditions it’s also about how much expansion the PEX can take before failing since frozen water takes up more space. Therefore, expansion and ability to recover from that expansion (get back to its normal state) is important. That’s what makes PEX A better suited. If a tube can’t recover from expansion and recovery, eventually with will expand to failure after a few cycles. A ballon, for example, can with stand much less psi than a copper pipe. But boy will it expand over and over again and won’t pop as the water inside freezes.
PEX B is actually known to be the better product – it’s stronger, and leeches less chemicals into the water. Yes, PEX A lets you unkink the pipe, but you really shouldn’t be kinking it in the first place. The flexibility of PEX A is also nice, but you can warm up PEX B and it’ll be fine. PEX A has some durability issues, with several brands having failures. PEX B has not had this issue. The only real benefit of PEX A is the full-flow connections, PEX B has slight restrictions, especially if you use plastic fitting (don’t use plastic, use metal fittings).
Uponor when it fails, and it is going to, say they warranty their failed product. I replumbed a restaurant that had uponor that failed repeatedly. Uponor came and inspected and tested. I had spent a year coming out and doing temp repairs while uponor made arrangements to do their process. In the meantime the restaurant rained several ceilings down. Everything was purchased and ready for the day they were complete. I replumbed the restaurant during overnights so they could stay in open. Uponors determination was that their pipe didn’t fail, they decided that the 2″ prv must have failed at some point which weakened the pipe. What was their proof of that? Well they had none, but that determination was cheaper than paying 10k to warranty their product. They didn’t seem to happy when the corporation decided their was no chance that uponor would be the pipe that was put back in. Uponor couldn’t understand why they wouldn’t chose their pipe at the reduced cost (which was still higher than the pipe I chose)
Roger, I have a question….there are rotating and non-rotating expansion tools/heads for PEX-A. I noticed that when you expanded the PEX-A, that you rotated the pipe with the auto-rotate head. I thought the whole point of the rotating tool was so the head would rotate but the pipe would stay in position and that would give an even expansion around the whole joint?
Freezing is a lot different than overpressure. Two distinctions that I would imagine are most relevant are the material properties of the pipe in sub-freezing temperatures as well as a defined amount of volumetric change vs essentially unlimited volume when pumping it full. On that last point, if you have a flexible container that can flex 10%, freezing should never get anywhere near those pressures because the volume of the vessel will increase to fit.
I remember reading a long post about a plumber who had Uponor fail at his house, I think his garage ceiling. They boasted a great warranty but despite him doing everything right they fought him and turned him away. I like the concept but his post really turned me away from liking that product. A company that won’t stand behind their product tells me all I need to know about that product and the company that made it.
I am installing a 1/2 inch 3 way ball valve in my motorhome. I have very little space in back of the valve and need to use a 1/2 inch NPT to PEX elbow. When I tighten the pipe elbow, it orients away from where I need it pointing. What can I use to get the threads tight and in the direction I need it pointing to?
I worked for a company that tested fittings it was selling wholesale. We tested a sample of secura fittings to1400 psi in each batch. The rep wanted to see when they would break, so we went past 2000 psi when the fitting blew off the end, going straight through the safety block and the block wall behind it.
Harder PEX requires more joints and holds more pressure but fails in freezing cold and extreme high pressure and hot water softens and leaches toxic ppla in the water where copper brings it’s advantages PEX is good for easy access and replacement than iron cast or copper in older houses than newer houses because it’s flexible and easy to install but strength and toxicity comes in
Good demonstration! Extreme pressure buildup comes from icing (ice formation will start and travel longitudinally along the pipe squeezing/pressurizing the water as it goes). So even if your supply pressure is only 40-80 psi, the ice formation will act like a piston pump and build extreme pressure. The pipe does not burst from physical outward expansion of the ice like most people think.
I believe the burst pressure of pex B is listed higher so I’m not surprised. That said I’m in northern Michigan and have never seen a pex A failure. Although rare I’ve seen some freeze failures from pex B, usually copper crimp rings, less so with the stainless ones. Once they are deformed from the ice expanding they never go back to their correct size. That’s the beauty of the ProPex system, it all expands and contracts together.
I prefer installing pipework in attics as opposed to under a slab. I would love to hear your take on it. I believe, concrete slabs will outlive any pipework that we put under them. So when the pipework does fail, it is easier to re-pipe the house from the attic. Yes, damage is done to the house, but if you weigh up the cost in my area for slab re-pipes as opposed to a re-pipe in the attic. the slab re-pipe is more expensive than the re-pipe in the attic, including repair costs to the inside. Also, when you have a pipe issue in the attic, you know immediately. It doesn’t wash out under your house.
Roger says, “Wouldn’t you want what’s well and above?” Well Roger, since all your tests were resulted in burst pressures north of 900psig, I’d say it doesn’t matter for home service in a system that sees a max of 80psig. It’s dumb and ridiculous to think this test makes a difference for any residential project. Hell, if you wanted to go by ASME B31.3 you would only ever test to 1.5 x design pressure for a hydro test.
I am a master plumber in California. I would never use pex in a house. I’ve repaired too many pex fittings. That looks good but leaked. The other holes were caused by rats or mice. The insurance company does not cover rodents. This is another way to try to build a cheaper house. I have worked in many High rise buildings with 70 year old copper. Unless your water is very corrosive stick with copper type L blue. No, old time plumbers that I know will ever use Pex for a permanent fix. If I put a water heater outside temporary during the remodel, OK.
PEX is a polyethylene material which has undergone a change in molecular structure using a chemical or a physical process whereby the polymer chains are chemically linked. Crosslinking of the polymer chains of polyethylene (HDPE) into PEX for pipes results in improved properties such as elevated temperature strength and performance, flexibility, chemical resistance, environmental stress crack resistance (ESCR), resistance to slow crack growth (SCG), toughness, and abrasion. Crosslinking makes PEX a “semi-thermoset” polymer, providing excellent long-term stability.
This test doesn’t really prove anything. You’re worried about pipes freezing, not 1k psi in your pipes. When water freezes, it expands, which most people translate into pressure. While this does kind of correlate, it doesn’t paint the full picture. The water/ice expanding is a displacement. PEX-A, naturally, can be expanded without breaking, that’s how you make the fittings. PEX-B cannot. So, while PEX-B might hold more pressure, it’s resistance to expansion is going to cause that pressure to build up much more than a PEX-A pipe. You can even see this in the article. The PEX-B pipe doesn’t change diameter after it bursts, while you can visibly see PEX-A deflate after it bursts.